Board index FAQ Search View unanswered posts View active topics Register Login
JBLC Forum
Jones Beach Lifeguard Corps
2010 Draft-----Suggestions
Page 1 of 1 [ 12 posts ] Post new topic Post new topic   Reply to topic Reply to topic

First unread post
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
Post 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:45 am
As per the request of JBLC President Tom Donovan, I would like to throw this idea out there in regard to ‘Bumping/Draft’. It’s very long, but if you are willing to read it, maybe there are some ideas that are useable.

I tried to think of a sensible compromise. Lay-offs are not pleasant. If we are going to be business partners with NY State, and not just view ourselves as employees, we will again take a bag of lemons, and make some lemonade. It seems that all parties involved in crafting/participating in the ‘2009 Voluntary Leave of Absence Program’ did a good job of working together. They should be thanked, and proud of their accomplishment, in my opinion. They were able to navigate the 2009 staffing/employment in a way that served all parties involved. “A good compromise is one in which neither side is completely satisfied.” So it is again time to work hard to figure something out.

Here are some thoughts I have put together. I included assumptions/examples just so you can follow my thought process. I do not know what the actual numbers will be. I hope this helps as a written starting point for all parties involved, so that a safe, sensible, good compromise can be obtained.

I have thought of, and heard of, numerous suggestions including:

---#1 through #500, complete re-draft;

---#1 through #500, Bumping down from top to bottom;

---- All Lifeguards that get displaced through field closings or field staff reductions would need to ‘draft in’ to ONLY the available LG positions. The Available open lifeguard positions would have been created by laying off the least senior JBLC members throughout the corp. Therefore displaced lifeguards fill in the gaps throughout the system.

In order to understand my thought process below, I have listed the following Assumptions for “illustration purpose only”. Not sure on the realistic numbers.


Assumption- There are 500 JBLC lifeguards in total
Assumption- There will be 425 JBLC lifeguard jobs available in 2010
Assumption- Layoff will affect 75 ‘lifeguard employment lines’. For this example, it includes 10 officers (two captains, two lieutenants, 6 boatswains) 40 full-timers, 25 part-timers
Assumption- NY State/WSO in conjunction with NYSUT/NYSLC/JBLC will determine which fields are closing, and how many lifeguard ‘employment lines’ are being terminated
Assumption- NY State/WSO in conjunction with NYSUT/NYSLC/JBLC will reinstate all lifeguards who participated in the ‘2009 Voluntary Leave of Absence Program’ back into their 2008 LG position , as per 2009 documented and verbal agreement of all parties involved (LI Region/WSO/ Lifeguard/ JBLC union). This will occur after the re-hire test, but BEFORE any further reconfiguration of the JBLC occurs. The end result is that in 2010 there are again 500 lifeguards returning, who are interested in working

Thought Process:

1. 75 lifeguards will be terminated.

Going into draft day, after the rehire test is passed, it will be ‘assumed’ that the 75 least-senior members of the JBLC might not have opportunity for employment and may be terminated. Until ‘General draft day’ we will not be able to determine which of those specific lifeguards will be affected. If all 500 lifeguards actually wanted to return, then yes, it would be the 75 least-senior JBLC members. However, there may still be available positions at outer parks that cannot be filled, due to a lack of interest. If a lifeguard position remains available at the end of the draft, those positions would be re-offered again to #1-#425. If those positions STILL cannot be filled. The 75 lifeguards, staring at #426-#500 would be given the employment opportunity. If a lifeguard accepts the available position, they would remain a member of the JBLC in full standing

2. In my suggestion, there is an “officer draft” and a “general draft”

In the ”Officer Draft”, the most senior displaced captain will begin picking their new assignments (if no captains, then Lieut.) This will be based on Officer Seniority Rank (not JBLC corps seniority number). In the Officer Draft ,“BUMPING WILL BE ALLOWED”. Therefore if two captains are displaced, they get to draft into a position by bumping any ‘sitting captain’ that has a lower captain seniority. From that point down, there is a complete ‘bump down draft’. This occurs one officer at a time by officer seniority rank. Your name is called and you choose ‘hold my position’ or ‘transfer to____’. (OR there is simply a complete re-draft of remaining officers). However, once you choose your position via bump/draft , it is done. You cannot bump down further if you see your ‘Officer Crew’ is not falling into place with your vision. The draft needs to be orderly. Allowing multiple bumping for an officer will make this process go on forever. The only way you can re-choose another position, is if you lower your rank, or drop your cap.

In this example, there will be two Captains who are knocked down to Lieutenant; four Lieutenants that are knocked to Boatswain, and 10 boatswains who get ‘knocked’ to LG.
It is my suggestion that the 10 knocked Boatswains who do not have a position available, get priority draft position #1 through #10 at the general draft. However….. if there IS a boatswain position available ANYWHERE within the corps, and an officer chooses to not take that officer position (due to location, or WHATEVER), then the officer goes to the ‘general draft’ without any priority seeding or maintaining pay status.

These ‘knocked officers’ should retain their prior pay status for a minimum of 5 years, regardless of their new title, as long as they maintain full-time status, and do not voluntarily reduce their rank further. Therefore all existing officers from 2009, regardless of overall JBLC seniority are guaranteed a job in 2010 at their prior pay rank status . These are men and women who stepped up into positions of authority and should be rewarded. We would continue to implement the ‘still water/ocean water rule’. Therefore if you do not have sufficient ocean experience, you might not retain your rank,(if your rank is no longer available at a field you qualify for)

It is my thinking that a top to bottom officer draft (or bump) is manageable from an administrative standpoint. JBLC officers will have a high degree of respect for each other. They will empathize with each other. They have significant experience switching fields and managing others whom they have not worked with. They frequently do this during pre, post, and regular season. Thus, beach operations will maintain efficiency. Hopefully, It can be done without a significant decrease in safety to the public, without upheaval to the existing system, culture, and mentoring that has made us so successful. If we needed to implement this procedure two years in a row (hopefully not), it could be do-able.

***So we now already have the 100 beach officers in place. We now have approximately 400 non-officer lifeguards that need a location to work. And we use this assumption, that there will only be 325 positions available

In the “General Draft”, I would suggest that we do NOT do a top to bottom draft, or bump.
I think a complete top to bottom JBLC general draft would cause too much upheaval at one time. I think we might end up sacrificing continuity, and thus efficiency and safety of the public. I think that the reduction of a 500+ person organization to a 425 person organization, coupled with a reorganize/shuffle of personnel’s location from top to bottom will NOT be the most optimal solution for functioning on the sand. We are still an Emergency Service provider, protecting people’s lives, and that needs to be the first consideration, always.

My suggestion is that we decide upon a number of lifeguards that will remain in place, at their field, “on the board”. These lifeguards will not be subject to a General Draft. For argument sake, I will draw the line at 50%. Therefore, out the 325 available lifeguard positions, 162 additional non-officer lifeguards remain on the board, in place, at the field they were at last year. This will be the most senior remaining 162 non-officer lifeguards based on JBLC seniority, regardless of PT or FT.

***So Now we have all the officers, and 162 of the most senior lifeguards in place at the beach

Yes, I understand that some fields will have 20% continuity, while others will have 80%. However it will give some degree of consistency to every single field.

Note: If your field has been shut, regardless of your JBLC seniority, you will need to participate in the “General Draft”. The positive aspect is that if have a high JBLC seniority rank, and you were displaced, you will draft very quickly, into the pool of 162 available positions.

Note: If a Part Time or Full Time position has been eliminated/reduced from your field, AND you possess the lowest JBLC seniority of all the part-timers at that field, or all the full timers at that field (respectively), you will be displaced. You will need to participate in the “General Draft”..

The General Draft begins with the 10 officers who have got ‘knocked’ from their position. They get their priority seeding. These are the ONLY LIFEGUARDS that get a priority seeding. The draft then proceeds as customary with the remaining displaced lifeguards, based on JBLC seniority rank. I believe there should be NO BUMPING IN ANY GENERAL DRAFT IN ANY YEAR IN WHICH THERE ARE LAYOFFS. Therefore once you choose your position, and/or your JBLC seniority number has already been passed, you are locked into your spot. If another position becomes available, or you see something else you like better, you are unable to choose until the rest of the corps, down to the lifeguard with #425 has had an opportunity to choose a spot. The draft will become too difficult if you allow ‘bumping’, and all the chain-reactions that bumping causes. I think it is more fair if you let everyone have the opportunity to choose ONE position, before you go back and allow lifeguards choose a SECOND, revised position.

Once the lifeguard with JBLC seniority #425 has had an opportunity to choose, the draft is AGAIN opened up from #1- #425. However, this time it is ONLY for all those lifeguards that still do not have a position. (Obviously, there will be some ‘less geographically desirable spots’ that have not been filled). The goal will be to fill the open spots that are available. At that point, if you are not willing to accept employment, Regardless of the locale, you are essentially self-selecting out. You will be one of the lifeguards laid off.

If available positions still cannot be filled with lifeguards from #1-#425, the draft it is opened up to Lifeguards with seniority #426-#500. They now have the opportunity to continue employment. Those Lifeguards whom STILL remain without a position after all the open spaces are filled (either by choice, or by virtue of no more open positions) are the 75+ lifeguards whom are laid-off.

*** So now we have the whole corps in place again. However there will still possibly be a few unfilled, ‘less geographically desirable’ positions available

If after this whole dual-draft procedure, NY State/ LI State Parks cannot fill a position at a given park (ie Hither Hills/Orient Point), then the state shall conduct a New Hire test SPECIFICALLY for the locations available. Note that those ‘new hire’ lifeguards who pass and accept employment will be fully entitled JBLC corps members. However, they will be required to work at their location for the 2010 year, without the option of a mid-season transfer under any circumstances.

Also note: Neither NY state nor JBLC shall transfer any lifeguard (regardless of seniority ranking) against their will, from their existing location, to a location that was not filled during the lifeguard draft. Once a lifeguard has accepted a position, they will not be the threatened with termination/layoff, should they not be willing to move to a ‘hard to fill’ location. It is incumbent upon NY State to advertise properly, so that they will fill the lifeguard openings and meet the employment needs at all the locations that they have.

I don’t think my solution is perfect, however maybe some of these ideas can be expanded or amended to make it as successful as possible.
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:21 pm
James Rooney
Very well thought out approach to the DRAFT by a long time Jones Beach lifeguard family who has experienced the positives and negatives of the DRAFT-experiance "Firsthand!"

Some people leave the DRAFT very happy and others leave the DRAFT very dissapointed.

Last year the State basically saved the expense of giving the New Hire test, doing Rookie Training, and hiring 30-40 rookies and paying them Lifeguard 1 salary of about $12.56 an hour.

There are about 33 lifeguards left from the 2008 rookie class, about 45 lifeguards left from the 2007 rookie class and about 33 lifeguards left from the 2006 rookie class. If lay-offs do occur they will affect these 100 or so lifeguards, unless we can come up with some innovative solutions?

What about examining the Number and distribution of Lifeguard Captains our highest paid officers. Right now there are 13 Captains making $23.13 an hour.

What if we trimmed that # to 8?

We would save 5 Captain spots which earn $23.13 an hour for an average of $18,000 for the summer which is about $90,000 savings for the season. We could then use the $$$$$$$ to hire more lifeguards or keep the younger lower earning lifeguards who really need the money for college?

Maybe have an East End Captain that covers Orient, Wildwood, Montauk Downs and Hither Hills. Keep the 2 Captains at Heckscher and Sunken Meadow. Have 2 Captains at Robert Moses and 3 Captains at Jones Beach?

Then use Mike's theory of the trickle down and have the excess Captains move into open Lieutenant spots? The excess Lieutenants fill the open Boatswain spots. Etc Etc Etc.......trickle down.

None of the current Captains would lose their spots, but if 1 or 2 fail the test WHY replace them?

This would restructure the Officer Corps and make a serious dent in the Budget providing much bigger $$$$$ savings.

It would also make for better Supervision at the Top as well as return the importance of the Field Lieutenant position, allowing Lieutenants to RUN thier Beach and control their crews and LEAD!

Just a thought......I'm spitballing here.......thinking "Outside the Box"!

But if it saves Jobs and strengthens the CORPS at the expense of 5 expensive unnecessary Officer positions in comparison to the other 495 lifeguard positions.....maybe it's worth a thought?
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:53 pm
Does it seem like our representatives that we elected to their union positions (Executive Board and NYSLC) are leaning us towards a complete re-draft, bump, or other?

I would appreciate anyone (elected or not) who can lend a little bit of color to the current situation.

THX in advance.
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:24 pm
James Rooney
From what I heard at the recent BRA there were members in favor of the complete REDRAFT done by seniority that were mainly guards from WEST END TWO and FIELD ONE who were with-out a Field last year and remain with out a field. Others who have a field and have less seniority aren't in favor with bumping or a complete REDRAFT.

There were others who thought it unfair that you could just move in and take over a field strictly by seniority.

The general consensus seemed to be that any fields closed this year would be in the pools or Heckscher and those guards would be lower in seniority anyway. Last years situation was unusual as they closed two Fields that had guards with very high seniority, and these guards were displaced and there were few similar spots in prime oceanfront facilities.

I think what was being suggested was the lowest 100 spots based on seniority would be removed from the Board, and this would open up spots for the more senior displaced guards. At this time nothing is being set in stone, but the Executive Board is asking the membership for suggestions and ideas.

What was brought up is that while we do have set rules for seniority, the Co-Ordinators and Park Administrators have final say and really only follow our rules as a courtesy. They aren't really bound to stick to them, and ultimately Staffing is a Management perogative. Though Chip Gorman would prefer to keep everyone happy with the DRAFT as we have always practiced it. Steve Aggostinacchio and Joe Scalise have always went to great lengths to hold it and follow our rules and ultimately keep our guards happy with where they end up being assigned.
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:44 pm
THX for the update, Jim
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:24 am
James Rooney
No problem Team Fischer........not everyone can attend the BRA bro's so this is the next best thing to being there!


Let's keep our members informed the 400 to 500 JONES BEACH Lifeguard Corps members and now our 1,200 strong NEW YORK STATE Lifeguard members!

Pay raises and Retro and fully opened State Parks that are SAFE and PROTECTED.

Fully trained and experienced WATER SAFETY PROFESSIONALS that are equipped with state of the ART equipment that the people of NEW YORK deserve!
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:11 am
tony battisti
Just a couple of minor correcitons:

The number "100" - regarding layoffs - was simply thrown out as a hypothetical figure, for the sake of the discussion that we were having.

No one, not a single Beach Rep or member of the Exeucutive Board, suggested that even a single spot be eliminated.

As yet, Management has not announced a single layoff - so please, ladies and gentlemen, let's not start a crazy rumor.

As for changing the Draft procedure:

The Executive Board and Beach Reps are not "leaning" in any one direction. Every member of the Exec. Com. and every Beach Rep. has his/her own opinion on the issue that they are free to share here on this forum or at the beach rep meetings.

The one thing we have agreed on is that any change to the draft procedure will require a General Membership vote.

Tony Battisti - EBHO
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:49 am
In my opinion ,there were effectively 'delayed layoffs' in 2009 when they closed WE2 and Field one. However they were veiled by:
1- attrtition, and not replacing.
2-The 2009 Voluntary Leave of Absence Program (VLOAP)

Therefore, the State was able to classify it as a reduction in workforce, without calling them 'layoffs'.

JBLC lost 'lifeguard lines' in 2009. We are NOT getting them back in 2010. Again, in my opinion, veiwing it this way should not be considered a crazy rumor. However I certainly appreciate the dialogue, opinions and information here.

The whole point of this thread, specifically regarding the draft, was this:
How might you manage layoffs? AND
What do you do if the 2009 VLOAD participants come back, and there is no place to put them? Last edited by teamfischer on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:52 pm
James Rooney

The number "100" I mentioned had nothing to do with lay-offs, and had everything to do with seniority. I was merely passing on that the plan was to start with the least senior lifeguards and see where the openings fell.

Last years closing of Field One and West End Two eliminated a certain number of lifeguard positions, that's a FACT. Probably about 50 positions. By utilizing the furloughs and the medical leaves that took place. Plus not holding a NEW hire test, and the usual attrition of lifeguards not returning; the State & Lifeguard Corps avoided having to lay-off anyone, and every lifeguard who wanted to work could work.

This years New York State Budget isn't out yet, and at the rate it's going probably won't be out any time soon. Depending on the amount of money allocated the Park Administration will determine what they will need to do to save money. As lifeguards we need to keep informed and keep our members informed.

The lifeguards that were on medical leave and the lifeguards who furloughed last season are all due back this season. According to the furlough paperwork sent out one of the requirements to furlough is having successfully completed the 2009 season. That would eliminate anyone who was out last year from taking another season off.

No one is spreading CRAZY rumours, but no one is talking about opening up Field ONE or WEST END TWO either.

Straight FACTS and information should be discussed;
Yours in solidarity; James Rooney
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:24 pm
I could obviously call you personally, or email you to get this information. However, if I have these questions, I am sure many others do as well. So you are definitely doing a solid for everyone by taking the time to post your information here, and educate those who are unable to attend the meetings or keep in touch. I just want to make sure I am not coming across as combative. THX.
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:18 pm
tony battisti

I don't think you're being combative, but just to be on the safe side let's use the handy emoticons. When we want to come across as even tempered we should close our posts with this one: :D ; and, when we want to come across as combative we'll use this one: :evil:

How's that? :D

Tony Battisti - EBHO
Post Re: 2010 Draft-----Suggestions Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:53 pm
Gotta love the emoticons. In fact, gotta love the word "emoticon". :!: :!:
Page 1 of 1 [ 12 posts ] Post new topic Post new topic   Reply to topic Reply to topic

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
Display posts from previous: Sort by

Powered by phpBB © 2002, 2006 phpBB Group
All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
subMerged by redhair