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FIRST TO WALK, LAST TO GO BACK
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Post FIRST TO WALK, LAST TO GO BACK Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:59 pm
Guest
For the first time in recent memory the election of this new executive board offered us the hope for some real change. However, as we have all seen no new bargaining ideas or any ideas for that matter have been offered to get us the raises we deserve and the retro pay that is ours. The time for idol chatter and writing angry posts is over. Like in the past this does nothing but divide us and not better our current situation. I would like to propose to all of you my suggestion for how we can actually accomplish our goals. All lifeguards scheduled for preseason show up and sign in on the first day. After sign in they all walk off the job. This will constitute a job action which is in violation of the Taylor law. The Taylor law states that union dues can no longer be collected by NYSCOPA at this point. This will prevent any further money for the duration of the season from being collected by NYSCOPA. The Corp, through its shop stewards, may then collect those dues from its members to be deposited in the Jones Beach Lifeguard Treasury.
All lifeguards who walked off the job on the first day will be fined 2 days pay for each one missed. However, the initial lack of lifeguards will place us in a good position to actively bargain with the state, who is unaware of the duration of this Job action. Bare in mind this is taking place during Memorial Day weekend when our most senior lifeguards and officers would be working and the beach attracts large crowds for the air show. However, our plan will be to return to work the following day.
This one day will exhibit a show of strength and solidarity among the corp and show the state we are willing to finally take action. This will also allow us to collect our own dues instead of sending them to NYSCOPA for the rest of the year. We can use the money currently in the Treasury to offset the fines that will be imposed on the members leaving the job on the first day of work.
I feel this is a practical and fiscally smart plan of action and would be happy to be the first to walk and the last to come back. I look forward to hearing your opinions on this plan or any suggestions to improve it.

Lt. Bob Hirten, Central Mall
Post Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:06 am
Guest
Interesting idea Bob, and well thought out.

I'm Happy at least one other JBLC member is willing to say they're not Happy with the current situation and are willing to take action. That brings to about 5 those that are ready for action: Tony V, Santiago, Ryan, Rooney are ready too, or at least we're willing to put our names on it. Some guards don't like to see their names in lights!

It's about six months till the rehire, I hope we'll begin to get some sort of information soon from Bruce Mierowitz on the current State of the NYSUT situation. Did NYSUT ever pursue the DFR action? Who are the full time NY State Lifeguards that NYSCOPBA wants to keep?

It seems there are three distinct moments we can take action:

1) When we get our re-hire papers.

2) when we show for the rehire procedure.

3) when we open the Beach Memorial Day weekend.

Too bad PERB isn't willing to step in and address this situation, or NYSCOPBA hasn't come to the table with GOER and bargained for us.

What's NYSUT's feelings on this situation?

I guess they ALL figure JBLC lifeguards have kept coming back since 2002, and they'll keep coming back as long as they keep feeding us the usual UNION BS we've been fed for the past 4 years!
Post now im wasting my time... Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:20 pm
Guest
i agree with hirten 100%...this is the first time ive logged on where i feel like im wasting my time...

we have been hoping for the best expecting the worse for over five years...time to shake the cage...fuckin blast the cage if you ask me...

many of the guards are on the same page...they want what they deserve...they might not want to wear it on a shirt or state their beliefs here on freejblc...but they want it...

i thought the EB would lead us in a direction...i thought they would be more agressive...i was way wrong...looks like hirten has the right idea...and to be honest its at least something for us to put on the chopping block...

i guess the 400 plus are happy just waiting around for nothing...seriously its like someone asks you...can you hold this brick for me and then walks away...how long are we gonna hold it...
santiago
Post Stand Together Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:32 pm
Guest
Hey:
Right now:
1) I am unemployed
2) My wife makes 11.00 dollars an hour
3) my health insurance sucks
4) I need the summer money badly
5) My mom worked for Eastern Airlines and went on strike even though she could not afford it!!!
6) 5) I will walk out if needed!!!!!
Post Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:33 pm
Guest
First let me state that if what I proposed in an earlier post remotely falls into what I am about to say, I will totally rescind it. This almost sounds like a premeditated offering by someone very few, if any in our corp. would trust. If this does occur, it is absolutely against the law. Can any of our brothers and sisters of the police dept. be asked to break the law, when they were sworn to uphold it? Do any of us want to do the same? For those of you who are too young to remember, please Google the 1981 strike by PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization). This is where President Regan FIRED almost 13,000 federal employees for walking out and striking. By the way, they weren’t even on strike for any pay raise. This could be his ultimate legacy to get all the senior guards fired in one fell swoop. He stated he would be back as the Lt. of the Mall. He said he would be the first one to walk. He said he would be the last one to return. Maybe he has no plans of returning at all, so he really has nothing to loose. I hope that this will not shame him into coming back, just to prove me wrong.

The following is taken from the Taylor Law
§210
Prohibition of Strikes
1. No public employee or employee organization shall engage in a strike, and no public employee or employee organization shall cause, instigate, encourage, or condone a strike.
2. Violations and penalties; presumption; prohibition against consent to strike; determination; notice; probation; payroll deductions; objections; and restoration.
(a) Violations and penalties. A public employee shall violate this subdivision by engaging in a strike or violating paragraph (c) of this subdivision and shall be liable as provided in this subdivision pursuant to the procedures contained herein. In addition, any public employee who violates subdivision one of this section may be subject to removal or other disciplinary action provided by law for misconduct.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:54 pm
Guest
It's a good thing we're just seasonal employees and won't be public employees again till we take the rehire test.

All this tough talk is getting a little scary.

Are the other 495 lifeguards happy with our current situation?

Remember we can't trust Bobby Hirten, who can we trust?

Stu, do you have any odd jobs you can offer Tony?

Remember we broke the Taylor Law in 1971, but a judge ruled we were not public employees since we were seasonal employees who never started working .

Did they close that loophole?

Also we broke the Condon- Wadlin Act in 1967 when we struck for 8 days, but they didn't apply the law and waived any penalties in order to settle the strike.

Is Patterson the same as Reagan?

Will they fire 500 lifeguards like they fired the air traffic controllers?

What about the provisions under the Taylor Law to provice for Good Faith bargaining?

How about our rights to organize and participate in collective bargaining?

Is NYSCOPBA or GOER representing our rights as employees?

The Taylor Law and PERB are supposed to resolve disputes before they escalate, what's holding up our deal with NYSUT, NYSCOPBA, and GOER?

What's up with the DFR case? What does NYSUT say?

Can we trust Bruce Mierowitz?
Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:54 pm
Guest
Not knowing Stu Kaplan, it seems from his posts that he does not have the backbone to walk out because of the Taylor Law. We can not be fired according to the Taylor Law, maybe you should google the Transit Workers Strike from a few years ago as proof positive. It would give me no greater joy than to see the presidents of NYSCOPBA and NYSUT being hauled into jail on Memorial Day because no one wants to figure out which union we are really in. The second point Stu makes is a very narrow interpretation of the Taylor Law and provides further proof of his lack of cojones. If we are given the opportunity to decide when we return to work, (before full opening is a not considered a right as any more senior guard should know) then we are not failing to show for work. if we all state we will not work until full opening then the State is the one who gave us that option. I wish more people were like Mike Vertuccio who are in bad financial times and are willing to do what it takes to ensure the future of our corps.

1. Written Contract given to all Members
2. Pay raises and Retro for 6 seasons of no raises
3. Defined disciplinary procedures
4. Transparent interactions with the state and the coordinators.

These 4 items are what we are owed from various acts of Congress in support of the right of labor unions to organize for their workers. Scab or not, Hirten came up with a good idea that is outside of the purview of the Taylor Law and is something our Executive Board should seriously consider. I think they should write the B and B to update us first, but this may be too much action to ask out of our elected officials!
Post what else... Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:52 pm
Guest
hey i was just on the website for the taylor law...again...
and it states if a group like jblc, goes through all the procedures and steps to get representation, or hearings and nothing gets done...the final stage is perb cause they are set up to actually prevent us from a strike...

either way it looks like others are taking the wheel and things are at least getting discussed...a fuckin bucket and bouy would be nice...

i wonder what our fearless leaders think...

seriously is there anyway we can get a real good lawyer neutral lawyer who can disect the taylor law so we know what we are doing...i dont want to listen to stu or bob i want a professional to tell me...no suit from nysut...neither...
santiago
Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:05 pm
Guest
Stu, your post highlights exactly what our problem is. We so concerned with arguing among ourselves that the state doesn't even have to fight us anymore. We just fight ourselves. You know whats going to happen if we keep this up? Another summer is going to pass and next winter we will be sitting here talking in this same forum listening to the same camplaining. At least I am here offering ideas Stu. We need real leadership in the Corp. Stu, if cops and firemen can't do what I said, because according to you it "breaks the law", then they can put there start date after memorial day. Remember, according to what I layed out we are only leaving work for one day. No one is going to fire anyone over one day. We are not shutting down beach operations for the summer, therefore the state isn't going to fire people in order to break any kind of strike. We are trying to also stop our dues from being taken by NYSCOPA, which this will accomplish. Stu, if you think I have some kind of master plan that I am secretly hatching your right...it's to finally get us some of the demands that everyone has been complaining about.

Lt. Bob Hirten, Central Mall
Post Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:22 am
Guest
Bob;
I can see both your points. Stu and many other lifeguards see BOB HIRTEN and equate anything you have to say or do to "This guys a sleaze-bag out totally for himself". If you look at the record of your 38 year involvement with the CORPS, they have a point. SCAB, your record as an officer both as boatswain & lieutenant before and after your stint in the Water Safety Office. Your relationship with both Joe Scalise and Steve Aggostinacchio, your testifying against lifeguards as an "expert" witness, the list goes on and on. I myself try to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I also try to point out that as a UNION we all have to work together and stick together. Hey but BOB HIRTEN is going to be BOB HIRTEN and sad to say no-one is really going to trust your opinion on anything.

Your BOLD statement of 'planning'a big walkout for one day on the first day is ballsy (as Ryan Clarke said shows cajones) but come on! We have to explore all sorts of other options before we get to that point. A first step would be to begin getting some press for our plight for representation. Stories highlighting the fact that NYSCOPBA is taking our dues but not fairly representing us? GOER is dragging their feet formalizing our placement with NYSUT-UUP? Or how about " We haven't had a pay raise since 2002 and haven't had a written collective bargaining agreement in over 20 years!"

I know alot of our problems are our own fault. Our leadership under Roy Lester, Jimmy Cash, Jay Lieberfarb, Eddie Peters, and too many others to name has been pretty pathetic, and the "Powers to BE" have had NO PROBLEM keeping us under control.

Anyone that has been around the beach for any length of time knows the humerous yet pathetic situations we lifeguards have gotten ourselves into. In the past under George Marth or Harry Barr it was a family and we took care of ourselves, but under the Asheroff, Lischinski, Nellen, and Scalise eras this battle has risen to new levels. I think we now have to begin getting this battle under control, both amongst ourselves and in relation to the "Labor vs Management" struggle. If everyone acts more professional I think we'll begin moving in a more positive direction.

A start would be to get that precious "Collective bargaining" agreement and true representation with NYSUT-UUP. That doesn't mean once we get it we begin shoving it up under Joe Scalise or Steve Agostinacchio's noses, or take unfair advantage of our new found rights and representation.

Come on! All we really want to do is get down to the beach, do our jobs, hang with our "PEEPS", play a little volleyball, do a little surfing, BarBQue, and have a few sodas after work with our fellow guards! That should keep Pete Groaner from groaning and Stu Kaplin happy!

You've got to look at both sides of this issue Bob!

James Rooney Last edited by Guest on Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:23 pm
Guest
woah...seems like some lifeguards are getting a bit on edge...amazing what happens when you open the lines of communication...and from what i can gather...stu has decided not to lead the charge and has quickly disappeared from the site...thats too bad...i love the fresh blood...more brains are better than one...

i was a bit bumbed with the bucket and bouy...same old we will wait...and wait...i was hoping for some other planned action we could take if the nysut/uup does not go through...oh well you cant knock them for trying...

it is sad...no contract for years, no raise, no respect and lifeguards want to discuss bob hirten's big plan to end the jb lifeguard corps...theyd rather bash hirten than disect his ideas...which may in the end help out the corps...

i tell you the days of old are out the window...there is a new spirit...a positive pulse...everyone is seen eye to eye...nose to nose...30yrs, 20 yrs, 10 yrs, 50 years...it dont matter...everyone is a lifeguard and thats it...you get one vote, cast it and be done...the corps knows my vote...
santiago
Post Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:44 am
Guest
On the rehire paperwork the state gives us the option of coming back to work at certain dates, with the date of return being our choice. As long as we are willing to come back to work at full opening they can not ask for any documentation or take any retribution against us. What better sign of solidarity can we show as a Corps than to not agree to come back until full opening. This is not a strike, it is not a walk out, but rather the corps taking advantage of the choice as to when we are willing to return to work. If we can all agree to that there is no violation of the Taylor Law and maybe it will force the State to recognize the positive economic impact we have when almost half a million people come to the beach Robert Moses built to participate in a money making air show.
Post Re: FIRST TO WALK, LAST TO GO BACK Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:43 am
Guest
Its the beach. If anyone thinks we have it so bad, go work at Town of Hempstead or Long Beach. Eventually we will get a raise, (I'd rather a bigger base increase rather than retro).

If you can't be happy doing this job, kill yourself now because the rest of your life will be miserable.

-Seadog
Post Re: FIRST TO WALK, LAST TO GO BACK Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:23 pm
Guest
Matt;
What do they do at Long Beach and Town of Hempstead? How many guards? Pay Scales? Benefit package? Work rules and procedures? Raises? How often have they recieved an increase? Union? Test? Let's compare our job to thiers, numbers of patrons, swimming ability, job difficulties, crowd control issues, etc.
Great ideas let's start getting some hard facts that we can bring in with us to negotiations with the STATE, and better our situation. Does any one else have any ideas? Should we take a PAY cut? Do we deserve a raise? Retro package? How big a raise would we need to give up any retro? How much has our attrition rate been over the past 8 years?
All factors we need in order to make an educated presentation to the STATE? What's the State's position?
Plenty of questions for the February 4th BRA meeting Bro:
Roon-dune
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