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Speed suits?
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Post Speed suits? Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:39 am
Guest
What do the JBLC members feel about speed suits?

If they're legal in the olympics why should they be banned on our rehire test. What's wrong with our members having every chance to get their best time? There are those that try to break a minute, there are those that try to go sub 50 seconds, and there are those that try to make 80 seconds or 1 minute 20 seconds. Why make it harder to do your best?

If the State is going to force us to only use issue swimsuits, what are they willing to give for it? Maybe they can allow us to have an unlimited amount of attempts prior to full opening? If you have a bad dive or bad turn and do 1 minute and 20.1, why not take a rest and try it again? The fact that if you fail that first time, the pressure increases because another failure eliminates you forever! That in and of itself is very unfair for our members, and management seems to enjoy getting rid of our more senior members.

What do YOU feel? Let's get some feedback here. I've been told we need to poll our members so let your feelings be known. Contact your Shop Steward so he's aware of what you feel prior to the next Meeting. Last edited by Guest on Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Speed suits Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:00 pm
lvalentine
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I think we should not be permitted to wear the speed suits. But I think the state should just ban the speed suits, and outline what they WILL allow: regular men's and women's Speedo-type suits, guard suits, trunks and women's bikinis. In other words, let's wear as little as possible during the test (whoo-hoo!)

Last year, I took the new hire test and there was a candidate who tried to wear a speed suit. He wasn't permitted to wear it. Why should he have had that edge over the rest of us who were wearing the type of garb that a JB lifeguard *would* be wearing on the lifeguard stand? In other words, nobody's going to be doing any rescues wearing a speed suit, so let's have a fair representation of what people's swim times are during the new hire and rehire tests accordingly.

Of course, this is coming from this LG1 who doesn't own a speed suit. But I do own an Orca full body wetsuit, and I'm not asking to wear THAT during the test!

Hoping for a speedy resolution to this latest State-inflicted debacle.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:15 pm
Guest
The issue isn't whether to allow "speed suits" or not. The issue is the State making a unilateral decision to change the rehire test. Yes, "speed suits" are not lifeguard rescue equipment. Neither are goggles or starting blocks. Are these the next to be banned. What about sneakers during the 1/4 mile run. I don't know many lifeguards who wear sneakers when making rescues. Is the State going to disallow sneakers during the run? Just my opinion.
Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:08 pm
lvalentine
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OK, Peter, you've got me there. I hope the EB can pin the WSO/State down to exactly what their reason was for the uniform requirement, so we don't all have to keep making up our own interpretations about it, ad nauseum.
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:40 pm
Guest
Can we swim the rehire in the wrappers that we get? I'm no expert in swimming technology but woudn't the underwear suit be fast?
Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:29 pm
Guest
I think Jimmy and Pete raise good points. It's not "the suit" thats the issue, it's taking away something which the corp has. If the state wants "the suit" then they should give the union something in return i.e. raises etc... This is typical state/union negociations. Why would you just give the state something for nothing?

Mark Munnich
Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:46 am
Guest
OF COURSE THE STATE WANTS THE SUITS BANNED!
Look at who wears them and it becomes very clear. A few members of our executive board wear them and the state would like these members to go away. A few of our older members wear them and the state would love it if the ones who know too much went away. This is just another attempt by the state and /or The Water Safety Office to take things away.
Pete is right, they try to take away without negotiations. This has been going on for a while now. This past year they refused to negotiate, claiming that NYSCOPBA said we were not legal. Just an excuse to push things at us without our input.They dod not negotiate in good faith-which is required per our old NYSCOPBA contract.
We want our experienced lifeguards to have the best chance possible of returning-it would be very dangerous without them. We also know that the benefit of the speed suits is mostly psychological. If it was anything more, the olympics would not allow them.The state is engaging in a head game to scare our membership.
And Lisa, we do lots of things on the stand that we can't replicate for a test. I am not as fast as I used to be and many of our younger lifeguards are faster than me in a pool, but, I still get to rescues before the young guns at my beach. Its the experience and the knowledge that comes with it.
This is going to be a tough year-lets not allow the state to make it tougher.
Post Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:04 am
Guest
I am going to wear a wool full body suit like lifeguards wore to the beach in 1930s
Post Shave down Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:55 am
Guest
all the men should shave down including their head
Post Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:09 pm
Lifer
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I am not sure that I agree that we are losing something that we already had. For example, could I use flippers during the swim, or roller blades during the run? No. The state is just clarifying what can and cannot be used. We perform rescues in our bathing suits so we should be able to qualify in them. The patron’s rely on their lifeguards being able to reach them in their state issued gear. If you can't do a 1:20 in your bathing suit off a starting block it may be time to throw in the towel. Sure experience is worth something but a couple of years on the ocean is enough to really get it down. Lets not forget that we are the best lifeguard corp around. The fact that we need speed suits is honestly a little embarrassing.
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:01 pm
Guest
Personally I can do without the speed suits. I agree, it is tacky. But, as already stated here, the CENTRAL issue is the attempt by the State to UNILATERALLY and ARBITRARILY change the conditions of the rehire.

If our relationship with the State were different, it wouldn't be a big deal. But this is still The House that Asheroff Built.

Truth be told, being forced to wear that rag-ass diaper THEY call a swim suit should warrant a time-BONUS of at least two seconds (half a second per lap minimum). We are in effect wearing a "drag suit". The number of high-level swimmers and coaches in the Corps is staggering. Many of us have worn/ are wearing "drag suits" in workouts. You know what I say is true.

So let's not lose sight of the real issue: an attempt to unilaterally and arbitrarily change the rehire test. We cannot, we will not allow that to happen.
Post Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:29 pm
Guest
If someone wants to wear a fastskin, why not. They really don't make you that much faster. Fractions of a second - yes definitley. I wear fastskins when I race because I want an edge, yes. If I never practice or train, its not going to matter. They are not going to get you from 1:25 to 1:20 overnight. The people who are close to 1:20 every year have to train hard and work their butt off in the winter and spring to make it. Its not just magic. Aaron Piersol wore a regular suit for Olympic Trials just to prove that he could make the Olympic team without a fastskin --- and he did. Athletes wear them becuase they are sponsored and get free stuff and they can take off a few fractions of a second. In our case of the lifeguards, They should definitely be able to use them. Most Lifeguard Corps in the country don't even have a test of this kind every year.

Another good point - some people take the rehire with a stopwatch. The degree of error for the stopwatch matches or outwieghs the fractions of a second with the fastskin.
Post Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:44 pm
Lifer
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Ever since my first year on the job I have been taking the rehire test in my state issued suit, as has virtually every other guard. Only during the last few years has a few of our executive board members and other lifeguards required an extra edge and decided to wear these new controversial suits. To me they are the ones who have unilaterally changed the swim test requirements and in essence dragged the corp into yet another unnecessary battle with the state. With each of these fights our relationship with the state deteriorates a little more. These few individuals are the ones challenging the rules regarding what can be worn on our rehire, thereby forcing the state to set up some limits on its own test. The state isn’t changing anything. They are merely stopping these people from arbitrarily deciding what can be worn. We never negotiated that these speed suits can be used, so WE ARE UNILATERALLY deciding that this is appropriate attire for the swim test. When the state then steps in to say this is not allowed we accuse them of doing exactly what we just did...unilaterally changing the swim test.
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:26 am
Guest
Dear Lifer and any other ill informed folks out there,
We did in fact negotiate that the speed suits could be worn for the retest during winter negotiations three winters ago. I was on the executive board then and evidence was supplied that the suits had very little physical advantage. The Water Safety Office, Chip Gorman, Sue G (JB), Betsy W (RM), Eric (SM), and the JBLC Executive Board discussed the suits, presented their opinions and it was determined that as long as the suits supplied no floatation that they would be allowed.
Yes, our relationship with the state has turned for the worse. But that does not allow them to make changes to our rehire or working conditions without negotiating IN GOOD FAITH. This is one of the only rights we have under our contract with the State Of New York. They must meet and discuss before they can make changes. They did not do this.
For all of you out there that think the speed suit is the issue-YOU ARE WRONG- The issue is we must protect the few rights we have under our current agreement with the State Of New York. First they take this, then they atatck that, before you know it-we have no agreement to follow. These past few years have been tough and I hear the complaints about our executive board and it has caused a split in the Coprs-This just helps the State chip away at what little we have.
Lifer-I take it by your username that you hope to be a JBLC member for a long time. If we give in without fighting for our rights-your career and many others will be cut short. Regardless of your feelings for this executive board- They are fighting for all of our rights as have all the executive boards that fought for us before them. I have had many disagreements with this board- but this is a battle worth fighting. Look at the big picture-don't let a silly bathing suit issue cloud your mind.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH WITH THE STATE OF NEW YORK UNDER OUR PRESENT CONTRACT

THIS ISSUE WAS NEGOTIATED IN GOOD FAITH A FEW WINTERS BACK

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO WEAR SHARK SKIN TYPE SUITS FOR THE RE-TEST

THE STATE REFUSES TO NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH, BUT THEY CAN NOT MAKE UNILATERAL OR ARBITRARY CHANGES TO WORKING CONDITIONS AND REHIRE STANDARDS PREVIOUSLY AGREED TO

Have a good spring Last edited by Guest on Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:27 am
Guest
Well put Frank, I wasn't aware of those facts, and I'd say the forms sent out by the State should have been checked by the very same WSO that negotiated the use of the Shark skin suits. Obviously someone isn't keeping very good track of "Past practice" Here?
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